Best in Class*

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 11/29/2018 at 18:48 • Filed to: None

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*Only kinda, on one model

I mean, it’s no surprise that the payload figure a truck maker touts is going to be in their special configuration where the max is. Jeep, though, I thought was a little deceptive in the reveal for the gladiator, making it sound like all versions would be all truck.

Sure 1600 lbs is more than the Colorado’s 1574 lbs max. The thing is, the Colorado range has a low payload figure about 1330 lbs, so even the wimp of the group (ZR2 diesel) gets decent payload.

Now, the Gladiator can surely handle 1600 lbs....In the sport trim, with the gas engine, and the manual. All other trims kinda fall off the map. Dropping down to only 1160 lbs for the Rubicon Auto (1200 for manual). Which if you are keeping track like I am (wait, you aren’t?) is actually a little less than the already sad 1175 lbs for the equivalent Toyota.

As a point of fact ONLY the sport trim manual and sport trim max towing package auto get payloads above 1200 lbs. And the Rubicon isn’t even the lowest number, which belongs to the 1105 lb auto sport trim without the towing package. So if you like the Gladiator and you are stoked to use it more as a versatile truck and less of a wangler then be sure to stick to sport trim, manual or with the towing package

In fact, as far as I can work out, it’s actually both not only best in class**...its also worst in class .  Well played!

p.s. I’m not trying to hate on the Gladiator, I’m legit glad it’s here, but well...I like numbers even if they make me a little sad.

That being said literally no one will care about the payload ratings just as they’ve always not cared so there is that too.

**Class being 4x4 midsize trucks...not counting 2wd

Nibby > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 18:57

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Can’t wait for pricing.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 18:58

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If they offered a 2 door model they could have an even higher peak payload number to brag about. Opportunity missed 

benjrblant > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:02

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Isn’t this what all manufacturers do when making those “best in class” claims? Find one niche trim level with a certain options package that nets them 5lbs more than the next “in class” and then gloat about being “best?”

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:02

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Oh no a midsize truckwith more than 1/2 ton in payload? Remember when 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton actually meant something?

Honestly it’s plenty of payload for most people and like you said most people won’t care.

HammerheadFistpunch > benjrblant 11/29/2018 at 19:03

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unless they also need to remove some stuff like beds and tires and stuff.  then they’ll do that too.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:05

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In this context, do they mean payload as "total weight?" of passengers and bed? Or just the bed?

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:07

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best in class of one wooooh

this is what happens when you hand out awards for participation

you get fugly trucks

vicali > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:08

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Are midsize truck people really going to buy a Gladiator? I mean it’s a cool rig and I understand why the Jeep people are excited -but are you going to see them lined up and down the streets ( currently there are 8 other 2nd/3rd Gen Tacomas on our street)?..

Tacoma, Frontier, Colorado, Canyon, Ri dgeline (yikes), and the Ranger is coming in 2019.. It doesn’t seem like there is a lot of sales potential there for a different looking truckish J eep.

HammerheadFistpunch > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 11/29/2018 at 19:08

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T he last time the “ton” rating stood for anything youngsters were still called “sport” with affection. I t’s been a LOOONG time since that measure was used. Truthfully small trucks used to have a lot more payload than they do now, on account of people using them as trucks instead of lifestyle vehicles.

I mean

2655 lbs payload and 5000 lbs towing on 114 hp? yup. Wouldn’t want to try it ...but it was a thing. Most trucks that evolved into mid- sized trucks used to be in the full ton range and they were a lot smaller and less powerful then.

HammerheadFistpunch > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/29/2018 at 19:09

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Payload is all people cargo and tongue weight - 150 lbs (for the svelt American driver...)

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:11

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... Fine, I’ll just say it. What is tongue weight? “stuff in da bed?”

HammerheadFistpunch > vicali 11/29/2018 at 19:11

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Im interested to see who will be gladiator buyers. I would guess a full half will be JK or JL owners, 30% will be people moving “down” from a full size. 15 % conquest buyers (cross shopping with other mid-sized trucks) which leaves 5 % other (new buyers looking for that “look”)

HammerheadFistpunch > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/29/2018 at 19:12

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how much the trailer pushes down on the truck. (i.e. 7000 lb trailer, 10% tongue weight = 700 lbs force on the truck that acts just like 700 lbs of clown heads in the bed)

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:14

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But on the same principle-ish... just any weight “pressing” down in the bed then? Or is that calculated separately somehow because fizziks?

HammerheadFistpunch > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/29/2018 at 19:15

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counted as bed weight/ passenger weight... to a point

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:15

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Another reason for the 2 door

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:16

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So if you have four fat-fucks as passengers, can I only carry packing peanuts in the bed?

BaconSandwich is tasty. > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:18

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It doesn't really matter anyway - it's not like these will actually be used like trucks much anyway, right? 

HammerheadFistpunch > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/29/2018 at 19:18

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correct. a few more peanuts that the jl/ jlu... but not many

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:20

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That’s kind of sad (also sad I can’t grasp simple concepts well). But basically what you’re saying is a passenger-focused “pickup” with a stub bed can be one (passenger vehicle) or the other (pickup boi), but never both?

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:21

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For maximum irony, this gives it barely any additional payload capacity compared to the Wrangler (1000lbs) and less towing capacity than the Grand Cherokee (7200lbs for SRT, allegedly only 6200 with the 5.7 but yeah no.)

vicali > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/29/2018 at 19:27

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wafflesnfalafel > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:30

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Honda Ridgeline could totally take the Gladiator....

(kidding, kidding!)

HammerheadFistpunch > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/29/2018 at 19:34

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yup 

HammerheadFistpunch > wafflesnfalafel 11/29/2018 at 19:37

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well... in payload it sure can

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 11/29/2018 at 19:44

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No they couldn’t. It’s frame limited!

HammerheadFistpunch > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 11/29/2018 at 19:47

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well it’s weight limited. if you dropped 300 lbs of body your payload can go up 300 lbs. gvwr is capped by axle limits

bhtooefr > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:49

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I wouldn’t be surprised if real payload capacity standards have improved since then, too (well, OK, there’s the plastic beds on new Tacomas) - I know towing capacity standards are vastly stricter (in how things are reported by manufacturers, not due to any laws) than they were even 5 years ago.

Of course, vehicles being heavier is a factor, too - staying under 6000 lbs GVWR may lower registration costs, and if you’ve burned up your GVWR on the truck...

HammerheadFistpunch > BaconSandwich is tasty. 11/29/2018 at 19:51

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No but you can bet people will add 700 lbs of off road bits to the rubicon and still think they can tow a 4500 lbs of sxs to the trail with the family on board.  

RutRut > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:51

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I have to admit, if it wasn’t a FCA product I would really consider it. Just enough bed to fit my current needs that frustrate me with a sedan, still 4 doors, not nearly as big of a hassle as my F-250s were, and reasonably capable for soft-roading. But alas, FCA reliability and spending too much time there as a supplier means I can’t bring myself to pay something that guarantees a headache in the future. 

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:52

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I’ve loaded my half-ton... maybe slightly... beyond a half-ton. And that’s with 90hp (maybe when it was new). The 1-ton is a dream of mine, but they’re rare without rust and get snatched up faster than [some metaphor]

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > benjrblant 11/29/2018 at 19:53

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It’s not cynicism if it’s fact.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 19:58

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I would put air bags on the rear axle and voila a 1-T on.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 11/29/2018 at 20:15

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A 2 door body. Could/should be lighter 

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 20:28

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Check again; the payload max already has to be at the weight limit. T he JK ranges 880-10 00 based on SUSPENSION , not trim, engine, or weight. High travel (softer) suspension drops 120lbs of payload regardless of transmission or top . Tow limits do not change regardless of suspension .

The Gladiator is a heavy (but not heavy enough) motherfucker at >4000lbs and uses spring suspension (which holds less than leaf.) The frame isn’t designed for or capable of supporting more suspension capacity. Look at what has the lowest payload versus the highest payload. The Rubicon loses payload to softer suspension, this is a fact. But the Sport/Auto has the lowest payload when the drivetrain is only 5 0lbs heavier and the suspension is notably stiffer!

They use the same ZF 8HP (850RE) as the WK2. That transmission only weighs about 200 lbs. A typical ZF 6 speed manual weighs 230lbs, the Tremec 31 60 weighs about 180lbs in 4WD trims. Auto vs manual does not change anything that impacts payload except for possibly slightly higher capacity springs. To lose payload capacity equal to a multiple of the drivetrain weight change, you have to be running into a frame limit.

Frankly, FCA has always been ridiculously optimistic or flat out inaccurate with payload and towing. e.g. Claiming the GC SRT will tow 7200lbs but both the 3.6 and 5.7 will only pull 6200. NOPE! BULLSHIT. 5.7 can pull 7200 with the correct hitch. So I’d take all the numbers with several truckloads of salt. Just make sure they aren’t FCA trucks.

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 20:42

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I wonder if they’ll offer a 2-door Gladiator with a traditional 8 footer?

The Dummy Gummy > BaconSandwich is tasty. 11/29/2018 at 20:55

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Most trucks aren’t used like trucks, so... perfect in class.

DipodomysDeserti > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 20:58

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Best in class towing for 4x4,  convertible, manual pickups!

HammerheadFistpunch > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 11/29/2018 at 21:19

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the answer so far is a firm no

HammerheadFistpunch > bhtooefr 11/29/2018 at 21:23

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There are 3 parts to this

1. P eople wont tolerate the ride of the spring required for high payloads and frankly most people don’t care that they have to move up a size class to get more heavy work done.

2. Weight. As you pointed out staying in your class is tough when the truck weighs 5200 lbs but you need to stay below 60 00 GVWR.

3. Science - SO much more accurate modeling means reduced material for a given strength /load which also means they can cater their #1 (customer expectations) to their number #2 (hard limits) to create the best of both worlds.

nermal > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 11/29/2018 at 21:53

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You’re wrong about coil vs leaf springs. The two will definitely ride and handle differently, but both can be designed for the same load capacity. See: Ram pickups up to 2500 all use 4 corner coils, up to a 10k lb GVWR.

According to the spec sheets , the JT is rated at either 5800 or 6250 GVWR. There are two different axles offered, a regular and a “wide track”, which corresponds to the higher rated models.

The Rubicon models do not lose payload due to softer suspension, this is a fact. They are all the higher of the two GVWR options, but they also weigh ~4oo lbs more, which is why their payload rating is less .  

See:  https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/2020-jeep-gladiator-specifications-sheet-feature-availability.8468/

nermal > HammerheadFistpunch 11/29/2018 at 22:01

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Don’t worry, people will still add lift kits AND overloaded trailers to them, just like on bro trucks. You’ll know when you see one, especially at night, since the headlights will be pointed skyward. 

Pich, with Z32 now featuring Civic [Si] / No > HammerheadFistpunch 11/30/2018 at 11:37

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I’ m interested in getting one, however i wil l say that i have never liked Jeeps. But my new job has me driving a 03 Tacoma TRD and i liked it. I have now considered getting a small truck but i do need it to be able to tow a decent amount. th e one thing i always did want was the ability to lower the rear window (not the pathetic little square all trucks have but the whole window) and i think the G ladiator can go beyond that

HammerheadFistpunch > Pich, with Z32 now featuring Civic [Si] / No 11/30/2018 at 11:45

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first gen tundras do that window truck. 

Pich, with Z32 now featuring Civic [Si] / No > HammerheadFistpunch 11/30/2018 at 11:59

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Yeah, i’ ve also considered that one as well. I drive by this house that has 3 of those, two of the suicide door ones and one with the four doors